Saturday, November 24, 2012

Steve Keen — Production, Entropy and Monetary Macroeconomics (video)


Economics must be based on an energy theory of value. Here I explain how the laws of thermodynamics and production are consistent, and outline the kind of energy-entropy aware, monetary, multisectoral dynamic nonequilibrium model that economics needs.

Production, Entropy and Monetary Macroeconomics
Steve Keen

15 comments:

paul said...

I recently read one of Keen's older papers related to this subject and he seemed to be making the argument that conservation of energy didn't necessarily hold in the horizontal circuit. I could be mistaken.

Maybe his view has changed since then.

If this were true then theoretically the banking system could generate NFA, a conclusion I reject. In fact, in my view the banking system creates negative NFA due to accruing interest.

Tom Hickey said...

I believe that Steve's understanding of vertical money has evolved over time through interaction with others.

Bob Roddis said...

There is virtually unlimited energy, labor and physical resources for humans to use. The source of "economic growth" is human skill and knowledge which is often in short supply, especially due to wacko religions and theories like MMT. And human knowledge is fatally impaired by a regime of fiat funny money.

I don't find Mr. Keen all that bright or bold. If he were either, he would have attempted an all out attack on the Austrian School. His near total avoidance of the topic demonstrates abject fear. Similar to all the denominations of Keynesians.

Tom Hickey said...

Bob, if you folks ever become a blip on the radar screen, then we will pay attention to you. Right now, the focus is on terminating neoliberalism. At the moment all you guys do is provide some humor.

paul said...

"There is virtually unlimited energy, labor and physical resources for humans" - Bob Roddis

This is true, Bob but in a monetary economy it takes funds to put those things together into something useful. Without funds it won't happen, so the resources, including labor, go to waste.

Bob Roddis said...

I get it. It's just a lack of "funds". Why didn't I think of that? Scarce precious metals that constantly increase in value over decades aren't "funds" I suppose.

And Hickey, if we're only a blip on the radar screen (thanks to total Keynesian suppression of ideas), why is Norman so concerned with our influence that he has to distort our position? And you personally, BTW, are a world championship topic changer.

Actually, Keen is on to something which is that prosperity is truly a scarce resource. And what he is saying flies directly in the face of the MMT dreamworld where scarcity is abolished due to the government's ability to never run out of "dollars".

Tom Hickey said...

Bob,I have spent an inordinate amount of time on Austrian economics, especially the Mises-Rothbard-Rockwell variety. You folks want a different monetary system than we have now. If there is ever movement in that direction, it won't be a waste of time discussing this subject. But now it is. There are a real opponent out there.

Why does Mike waste time discussing this. Because they invite cranks onto show that he is on, or the host spout some nonsense.

Bob Roddis said...

Why does Mike waste time discussing this. Because they invite cranks onto show that he is on, or the host spout some nonsense.

Wouldn't it then make sense for him to actually learn something about the Austrian School? Further, the Austrian School explains reality and the economy-killing nature of fiat funny money.

Bob Roddis said...

I believe that Steve's understanding of vertical money has evolved over time through interaction with others.

I am endlessly fascinated by these pseudo-intellectual discussions about the nature of fiat funny money. Here's a clue: It's a scam to steal purchasing power without the victims knowing what hit them followed by denials from the thieves that a theft has taken place.

The purpose of your convoluted fiat system is simply to make discovering the thefts too complicated for average people to think about. Be proud of your criminal system, MMTers. Be proud.

Tom Hickey said...

If AE understood how monetary systems work, we'd have a basis on which to talk. Same with neoclassical economics. Oh wait, weren't Carl Menger and Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk early contributors to the development of neoclassical economics?

y said...

Bob is one of the most bizarrely deluded people I've ever had the misfortune to come across on the internet.

What Bob has done is create a completely imaginary world inside his mind - let's call it Bobworld.

In Bobworld everything is as good as it could possibly ever be, according to Bob. In Bobworld everyone chooses to use only gold and silver as money and there are simply no economic problems, such as depressions or financial crashes or unemployment or pollution or poverty, or other bad things like war.

Having dreamt up Bobworld, Bob then declares that the real world would be just like Bobworld if it wasn't for the gubmint and fiat money and Keynesianism.

People try to explain to Bob that the real world doesn't actually work like Bobworld, and that Bobworld is just something Bob made up inside his brain.

But Bob is sure that they must be lying. History books must be lying. Statistics must be lying. The real world must be lying - because Bob is absolutely convinced that without the gubmint and fiat money and Keynesianism the real world would be just like Bobworld.

And so he calls those who don't believe in his imaginary Bobworld "evil liars", claims that none of them “understand” Bobworld, are simply “afraid” of Bobworld, or in “denial” about the existence of Bobworld.

Then he runs of to play in his imaginary little Bobworld all on his own.

Bye bye, Bob.

paul said...

"Scarce precious metals that constantly increase in value over decades aren't "funds" I suppose."

Not for 99.9% of the world population, no, they aren't.

PeterP said...

LOL, Bob, I also noticed that Keen never attacked creationism and flat-earth theory. I guess his near total avoidance of the topic demonstrates abject fear.

Ryan Harris said...

neat-o, his software compiles on my linux desktop.

Matt Franko said...

" In fact, in my view the banking system creates negative NFA"

Paul, this is like in atmospheric weather where a localized low pressure region can develop that produces bad weather and even then at extremes turns into a cyclone/hurricane that "sucks everything in" to the extreme low pressure region in the eye...

rsp,